Como 4-1 Manchester United: Champions League – as it happened

8.20pm BST

And with that, I’m off. Here’s Jamie Jackson’s match report again. Bye!

Related: Como destroy dismal Manchester United as humbling defeat piles pressure on Carrick

8.14pm BST

Here are some snippets from Michael Carrick’s post-match interview:

It was more than disappointing. I think everybody’s got to take responsibility for that. I’ll take responsibility for the overall team and performance, it stops with me and I’m fine with that. But as a supporter of this football club, to see a performance like that is unacceptable, I have to say.

I’ll look at what we’ve done. It’s the motivation and the purpose and the intensity of a game of football that you have to bring. We didn’t bring that today. You can’t choose when you want to perform or you don’t, when you give absolutely everything and when perhaps you don’t.

I care an unbelievable amount about the supporters. They’re the heartbeat of this football club and always will be. I’ve got to apologise for the performance. Everything they’ve done to get here tonight, for them to watch that performance tonight, I feel for them.

Tonight’s not about me. It’s about digesting the game, and how it went. That’s the most important thing right now.

8.11pm BST

I assume this is a wave of apology rather than farewell.

8.00pm BST

Thankfully we can rely on Jamie Jackson, who is lakeside for us tonight. And here is his match report!

In sight of the Alps, a boat ride from George Clooney’s villa, Manchester United will hope, in what has been a terrible start to the season, that things do not get any worse.

They can’t – for the team’s prospects, and Michael Carrick’s job security, because witnessed here by Lake Como was a humiliation of the three-times European champions by Cesc Fàbregas’s competition debutants, as United suffered their worst defeat in continental football since 1994.

By 57 minutes this was over, as Como were 3-0 ahead, and Nico Paz had destroyed Carrick’s men with a scintillating display featuring two goals and the assist for Tasos Douvikas’s strike.

Much more here:

Related: Carrick under more pressure as Manchester United humbled against Como

7.56pm BST

It may take Manchester United fans some time to get over this performance/result, but TNT Sports have moved on pretty quickly. As I suppose they had to, given that loads more games start in five minutes, but doesn’t help me bring you the hottest reaction from a windswept, drenched Como.

7.52pm BST

The fun doesn’t end here! The 8pm games include Bayern Munich v Arsenal, which Scott Murray is monitoring here:

Related: Bayern Munich v Arsenal: Champions League – live

And also Aston Villa v Viking, Real Madrid v RB Leipzig and quite a lot more, which Sarah Rendell has to keep up with here:

Related: Aston Villa v Viking, Real Madrid v RB Leipzig and more: Champions League – live

7.46pm BST

The good news for Michael Carrick is that Dimitar Berbatov, on TNT Sports, doesn’t say that United now have to beat Bournemouth on Sunday for him to stay in his job. The bad news for Carrick is that Berbatov’s reasoning is that Carrick might not still be in his job on Sunday. “I don’t think everyone was giving their best,” Berbatov says of this performance. “It didn’t look like that on the pitch. Como were having fun.”

Updated at 7.51pm BST

7.43pm BST

Manchester United’s next few games:

Sunday 25 October: Bournemouth (h)Saturday 31 October: Chelsea (a)Tuesday 3 November: Roma (h)Sunday 8 November: Aston Villa (h)Sunday 22 November: Liverpool (a)

7.40pm BST

United’s players wander over to apologise to whatever flimsy remnant of the travelling support isn’t already drowning their sorrows in a nearby hostelry.

Updated at 7.48pm BST

7.39pm BST

Final score: Como 4-1 Manchester United 90+4 mins: Say what you like about this United performance, they completely dominated that period of stoppage time, and won it 1-0!

Updated at 7.39pm BST

7.36pm BST

GOAL! Como 4-1 Manchester United (Zirkzee, 90+1 mins) United do have their consolation! Amad chips the pass into the box, Zirkzee escapes from his marker and brings it down beautifully, leaving himself with a pretty easy finish which he calmly completes.

Updated at 7.45pm BST

7.34pm BST

90+1 mins: There’ll be three minutes of stoppage time, or thereabouts.

7.33pm BST

89 mins: … Not like that they can’t. Lacey takes the corner, and three defenders line up at the near post to boot it clear, which one of them emphatically does.

7.32pm BST

89 mins: Amad wins United a corner. Could they end the night with a consolation?

7.31pm BST

87 mins: Lacey swiftly earns himself a booking. “The Guardian called for jeopardy in this competition. I think Man Utd have found it for you,” writes Ian Copestake. Their remaining Champions League fixtures: Roma (h), Sporting (a), Leipzig (h), Bayern Munich (h), Villarreal (a).

7.29pm BST

86 mins: Another United substitution, Lacey replacing Mbeumo.

7.28pm BST

84 mins: Kempf is booked, I think less for bringing down Amad than for being grumpy with the referee for giving the free-kick.

7.27pm BST

82 mins: The last time Manchester United lost by four goals in Europe was more than 30 years ago, against a team that included Stoichkov, Romario and some chap called Guardiola.

Related: 2 November 1994: Manchester United are thrashed in Barcelona

7.24pm BST

80 mins: Como bring on Smolcic, Ricci and Dossena, and take off Couto, Paz and Perrone.

7.24pm BST

79 mins: Amass comes on for De Ligt, whose return from injury is the silver lining to tonight’s miserable, charcoal-grey cloud for United.

7.22pm BST

78 mins: Como are hunting for a fifth, but Paz shoots too close to Lammens.

7.22pm BST

GOAL! Como 4-0 Ohno (Ramon, 76 mins) That is delicious. Ramon, the centre-back, spots Maguire creeping out of position and reckons he can get into that empty space before anyone notices. And turns out he was right. Kaiki Bruno sees him sprinting into an empty penalty area and sends in a perfect, precise cross, and Ramon hammers his header home from six yards!

Updated at 7.44pm BST

7.18pm BST

73 mins: Zirkzee has brought a bit of extra pace and energy to the United team, if not any improvement in control. “Well, although it is quite funny (as a Liverpool fan) to watch a club swing from one manager to another chasing a dominance they once had (ahem), how much of the current malaise can be blamed on trying to keep up with the noisy neighbours across the city?” wonders Andy Flintoff (not that one). “Feeling that they have to do that has probably accelerated that swing and made the lurches more extreme.” I suppose it can’t have helped, though it seemed to have more of a positive effect on some other teams (if not their bank balances).

7.14pm BST

69 mins: Kaiki Bruno and his exemplary caterpillar moustache comes on for Da Cunha.

Updated at 7.14pm BST

7.13pm BST

67 mins: Bruno Fernandes is taken off, which feels a bit like an admission of defeat. Zirkzee replaces him.

7.10pm BST

66 mins: Amad shoots from 22 yards or so. The ball flies over Butez’s head and was probably also going over the bar but the keeper made sure.

7.09pm BST

64 mins: Como bring Caqueret on for Baturina. United have been playing for the last five minutes or so with Mazraoui on the right and Dalot on the left.

7.07pm BST

62 mins: Amad has been bright since he came on at half-time. He’s at the heart of a United attack but it ends with a blind cross, and a clearance. “Watching United at the moment, they look like a side completely in limbo, unable to move on,” writes Paul Flint. “The players surely know that Carrick is going sooner rather than later, and must be wondering about their futures. It doesn’t encourage in-game focus, however much they may be paid.”

7.05pm BST

60 mins: Tielemans has a shot from the edge of the area, but it’s more of an apology than a challenge and Butez picks it up.

7.03pm BST

59 mins: Paz tries another curler, this one from the edge of the D, but this one floats too close to Lammens.

7.02pm BST

GOAL! Como 3-0 Manchester United (Paz, 57 mins) Baleba hits a pass into Nico Paz’s shins just inside the United half and the ball runs beautifully into the Argentinian’s path, so he heads off, runs into the area, draws the keeper, and slides the ball across goal and in at the far post!

Updated at 7.15pm BST

7.01pm BST

56 mins: An actually good United move ends with Mount flicking the ball towards Bruno Fernandes, but it’s intercepted.

6.59pm BST

55 mins: Como should have had a third! Paz passes to Da Cunha, who shifts onto his left foot to open up a great shooting chance, 12 yards out, but then cuts across the ball rather than curling it with his instep, and it skews the wrong side of the post!

6.58pm BST

54 mins: “I know watching United’s downfall has been fun for rival fans, I totally get that and don’t blame them for relishing it,” writes Lee Woolsey. “And I know this gets said a lot by fans about their team when they’re playing badly, but I’m sorry: this United team just look like they don’t care. They were a goal down after two minutes and the remaining 43 were an exercise in collective shoulder shrugging by a team of mercenaries assembled by a parasitic reign of witches. People DIED for this club. These players are a risible disgrace.” It’s very easy to blame the players, though. They aren’t well coached. They haven’t been well recruited. It’s the whole edifice.

6.56pm BST

52 mins: “Not having a screen to watch this on, and just going on your mbm, I don’t think that Mount hasn’t been mentioned, is he doing as little as suggested?” wonders Martin Lancon. In brief, yes. United’s midfield hasn’t done very much. There were a couple of moments in the first half when Mount exchanged passes with Bruno Fernandes and the pair briefly looked pretty classy, but they haven’t achieved anything creatively. And as I type that Mount has a rubbish shot from 30 yards.

6.55pm BST

50 mins: That’s just so easy. Paz carries the ball forwards, Douvikas runs into a massive space between De Ligt, who just didn’t see the run coming, and Maguire – the Dutchman stumbles at a crucial moment, but he was already out of the race – and finishes superbly!

Updated at 7.06pm BST

6.53pm BST

GOAL! Como 2-0 Manchester United (Douvikas, 49 mins) A brighter restart for United, but in just over three minutes they’re two down!

6.50pm BST

46 mins: Peeeeep! The game has restarted, and United have made a double halftimely substitution, Matheus Cunha and Andrey Santos going off, Diallo and Baleba coming on.

6.43pm BST

Just one goal, and that from a wonderful shot from outside the area, does not really reflect what has not been a tightly-contested game. United had one good chance, after just a couple of minutes, and even that came after some terrible ball control from Diogo Dalot and a lucky bounce off Perrone, for whom Dalot’s inability to control a football had been not so much unpredictable as unimaginable. I’m not sure what Uefa classify as an “attack” but Como have had 16 of them, and United five.

6.34pm BST

Half time: Como 1-0 Manchester United 45+2 mins: It never rains but it pours, etc.

Updated at 6.40pm BST

6.33pm BST

45+1 mins: One minute of stoppage time stands between United and the hairdryer treatment (or whatever it is they get these days when they’ve been rubbish).

6.32pm BST

45 mins: An actual shot for United! Matheus Cunha gets the ball on the left-hand corner of the area, back to goal, then spins and sends a curling effort onto the roof of the net.

6.31pm BST

43 mins: More work for Lammens, this time to keep out Baturina’s 20-yarder. He can’t hold it, but Douvikas is offside again as he reaches the rebound. “It’s mindblowing,” writes Joshua Keeling, “that Diogo Dalot is a professional footballer.”

6.29pm BST

41 mins: United are saved by the offside flag! Douvikas is played through again, Lammens comes out and the striker goes over his leg … but the flag is up!

Updated at 6.42pm BST

6.26pm BST

39 mins: Real chance! Yan Couto, no pressure on him, plays a lovely pass over the United defence to Douvikas, who brings it under control before wildly mishitting his shot, which skews off his shin high and wide when really he should have scored.

6.25pm BST

38 mins: It is gently mindblowing that Diogo Dalot has played more then 250 games for United. I think United’s full-backs have both been pretty poor so far.

6.23pm BST

35 mins: Como attack again, but Douvikas ends up isolated, and forced wide by De Ligt, meaning that his left-footed shot is also easily dealt with by Lammens.

6.21pm BST

34 mins: Como work space on their left, but the cross they come up with is poor, and Lammens collects.

6.18pm BST

30 mins: Diogo Dalot sprints out to intercept a rare loose Como pass (good) only to produce one of his own that is just dreadful (bad), looping in the vague direction of Mbeumo but with no chance of ever reaching him, and Como have the ball again.

6.14pm BST

27 mins: The ball is played to Fernandes, who has to stretch for it, and by the time he brings it under control two blue shirts are upon him and one of them steals it away. The United captain spins and waves his arms in frustration at the poor pass (presumably).

6.13pm BST

25 mins: Andrey Santos dives in to challenge Paz, who flicks the ball over him, so he lifts his other leg to bring the Argentinian down and, in doing so, earns the game’s first booking.

Updated at 6.49pm BST

6.11pm BST

24 mins: United have the ball for a bit, and Tielemans spots a pass through to Fernandes, but a Como boot gets in the way.

6.10pm BST

23 mins: Uefa say Como have had 64% of possession so far, which is surprisingly little.

6.06pm BST

19 mins: A bright exchange of rat-a-tat passes ends with Baturina going down in the penalty area and loud shouts for a penalty, but it was a fine challenge and the referee waves play on.

Updated at 6.09pm BST

6.04pm BST

17 mins: It’s a poor corner but Dalot sends it back to Mbeumo and this time he puts in a better cross. Maguire wins the header, but the ball flies wide.

6.03pm BST

16 mins: United attack! Mbeumo gets to the byline, but his cross is blocked and flies behind for a corner.

6.03pm BST

16 mins: Me typing that Como were completely dominant leads, inevitably, to United’s best spell of the game, even if all that involved was 90 seconds of possession in and around the halfway line.

6.01pm BST

14 mins: Space briefly opens up for Perrone to release Douvikas, but he fluffs the pass and plunges his head into his hands in disgust. Como completely dominant at present.

Updated at 6.15pm BST

5.59pm BST

13 mins: Baturina tricks his way past Dalot, who is left grasping for a fistful of shirt – and doesn’t even get that.

5.58pm BST

11 mins: Paz and Da Cunha press Mazraoui, who completely panics, falls over, and Paz is able to escape down the Como right, but his cross is cleared.

5.56pm BST

8 mins: Paz now sprints across to steal Lammens’ pass to Mazraoui as United try, and fail, to work the ball out of defence. They end up escaping from the situation with a throw-in, though.

5.54pm BST

6 mins: Como win a free-kick on the left, swing it into the box, but it’s cleared. Kari Tulinius has done some actual work on that statue, and found some proper info: “It’s a bust of living Como legend Alessandro Gabrielloni, who played with Como in Series D, C, B and A, but has spent the last couple of seasons on loan in Serie B,” he writes. “I’d have gone for a slightly different pose, but it is undeniably eye-catching.”

5.50pm BST

GOAL! Como 1-0 Manchester United (Paz, 2 mins) Como run up the other end, and they don’t miss their chance! Paz squares Maguire up, shifts onto his left foot and curls into the far corner from the edge of the area!

Updated at 5.58pm BST

5.49pm BST

2 mins: Chance! Cunha passes to Dalot, whose control is poor but gets a lucky bounce and ends up with a shooting chance, which he fluffs!

Updated at 6.13pm BST

5.48pm BST

1 min: Peeeeep! United kick off, and swiftly punt the ball forwards, giving it away in the process.

5.46pm BST

The players are on the pitch and very nearly ready to go.

Updated at 5.54pm BST

5.43pm BST

Poor mascot coming out to pick up the match ball looks like someone just dragged him out of a ditch.

5.41pm BST

The players are in the tunnel. It is, as predicted, raining hard.

Updated at 5.51pm BST

5.30pm BST

The big question pre-match is: what’s going on with this statue, which appears to be of “bloke being kneed in privates”?

Updated at 5.32pm BST

5.16pm BST

Michael Carrick now has a little, umbrella-sheltered chat:

It’s fantastic to have Matt [de Ligt] back, he’s worked so hard for such a long period of time. They’re a really good team, and they’ve had a long spell of winning a lot of games. We want to look like a really good team, control the game a little bit here – coming away in Europe you want to control the ball a little bit. It’s part of the beauty of football, different styles, different things you come up against every week. We trust our shape.

5.10pm BST

Seven hundred Manchester United fans have made the trip to Lombardy, northern Italy, where Como 1907 play at the Stadio Giuseppe Sinigaglia (capacity 13,602), which is located on a shore of Lake Como. It is raining – hard – as kickoff approaches, as it has been since I arrived around 5.30pm local time on Tuesday. Como are billing this as the biggest game in their history, in what is their debut Champions League campaign. The big question for Michael Carrick’s team is simple: can they win only a third game of of the season here?

5.10pm BST

Cesc Fabregas has a chat:

It’s a very special night, for the city, for the club. We’ve grown a lot and I think the players deserve to be living nights like this. Let’s enjoy it. A great honour for us. We have a very young team, we’re trying to create a culture, a style of play, which can take years. At the end of the day it’s conviction, to send a very clear idea, and a good thing about young players is they are not scared. Over the years, when you get older, is when you start maybe getting a little bit more worried.

5.05pm BST

Word is it’s going to be very seriously damp in Como this evening, and early photos from the ground suggest the afternoon hasn’t been much better.

4.51pm BST

The teams! Matthijs de Ligt comes in for Manchester United, making his first appearance since November last year, as Michael Carrick makes four changes. Como make three changes, with Trevoh Chalobah missing out.

Como: Butez; Yan Couto, Ramon, Kempf, Valle; Milla, Perrone; Da Cunha, Paz, Baturina; Douvikas. Subs: Ginelli, Sanchez, Caqueret, Dossena, Kaiki Bruno, Ricci, Smolcic, Liberali.Manchester United: Lammens; Dalot, Maguire, De Ligt, Mazraoui; Andrey Santos, Tielemans; Matheus Cunha, Bruno Fernandes, Mount; Mbeumo. Subs: Darlow, Heaton, Zirkzee, Diallo, Baleba, Thompson, Lacey, J Fletcher, T Fletcher, Amass, Kamason, Armer.Referee: Sven Jablonski (Germany).

Updated at 5.42pm BST

4.15pm BST

Preamble Hello world! And welcome to this, a tale of two managers. Poor Michael Carrick, for all his undoubted ability, has been negatively compared for Cesc Fabregas for many years. Back in October 2009 the Guardian’s late, great football correspondent David Lacey wrote a column in praise of the Spaniard’s reliable brilliance – “Bergkamp did have off days, whereas Fabregas just has the odd day off” – in which Carrick was referred to, in passing, as a “gifted water carrier”. And here they are, 17 years and a few days later, up against each other once again, in a different role, one of them obviously good, the other evidently better.

Transfermarkt estimates the value of Como’s squad at €568.15m, and Manchester United’s at €928.80m. Como have lost only once in the league this season, while United have won only once. Both have one win and one defeat in their first two Champions League fixtures. And tonight seems destined to be discussed primarily in terms of how it affects Carrick’s standing and chances of long-term employment.

Not only was Carrick’s pre-match press conference dominated by discussion about his future – “I don’t need any reassurance. It’s pretty clear. I know the role, I know my responsibilities. I don’t need anyone else to tell me when it’s going well or when it needs to be better. There’s not much I can really elaborate on that. I know we’ve got to win football games for everything to flow and everything to fit into place.” – but Fabregas’s pre-match press conference was also dominated by discussion about Carrick’s future. “As you can understand I won’t answer that question because I think that’s not a very nice question,” he said. “I don’t think that shows enough respect to a great footballer and manager like Michael Carrick at the helm of a wonderful Manchester United side.”

It is all, in short, a bit rum. But for a couple of hours, starting at 5.45pm BST, perhaps we might let ourselves be distracted, if only for a while, by some actual football.

Here’s Jamie Jackson’s pre-match update:

Related: Carrick insists Manchester United board back him after Ten Hag points to ‘toxic culture’